One document matched: draft-tsirtsis-netext-controversy-00.txt



Network Working Group                                        G. Tsirtsis
Internet-Draft                                                  Qualcomm
Intended status: Informational                            April 16, 2009
Expires: October 18, 2009


              Discussion of Controversial PMIP Extensions
                draft-tsirtsis-netext-controversy-00.txt

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Abstract

   This document discusses the recent controversy regarding PMIP
   extensions for inter-technology handoffs and multihoming.  Many of
   the arguments presented below have been discussed in NETEXT BOF and



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   subsequent discussions on the mailing list.  They are written here in
   an attempt to explain why some of the proposed PMIP extensions are so
   controversial.

Table of Contents

   1.  Requirements Notation  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3
   2.  Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  3
   3.  The Internet, the Interface, and the Host  . . . . . . . . . .  4
   4.  What is wrong with PMIP so far . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  6
     4.1.  Signaling for Complexity . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  6
     4.2.  PMIP without Host Signaling  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  7
     4.3.  PMIP and Virtual Interfaces  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  9
     4.4.  PMIP and Link Layer Signaling  . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  9
   5.  Why extending PMIP is controversial? . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
     5.1.  Intertech handoff, Multihoming, and Host Signaling . . . . 10
     5.2.  PMIP with Host Signaling . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
       5.2.1.  Historic Reasons . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
       5.2.2.  MAG ... the new FA?  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
       5.2.3.  Proliferation of Redundant Tools . . . . . . . . . . . 14
   6.  Conclusions  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
     6.1.  Lack of Justification for PMIPv6 Extensions  . . . . . . . 14
     6.2.  What should be done with PMIPv6  . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
   7.  Security Considerations  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16
   8.  IANA Considerations  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16
   9.  Acknowledgements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16
   10. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16
























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1.  Requirements Notation

   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
   "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this
   document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119].

2.  Introduction

   This document discusses the recent controversy regarding PMIP
   extensions for inter-technology handoffs and multihoming.  Many of
   the arguments presented below have been discussed in NETEXT BOF and
   subsequent discussions on the mailing list.  They are written here in
   an attempt to explain why some of the proposed PMIP extensions are so
   controversial.

   Following this introduction, the draft reminds readers of how
   interfaces and hosts are normally viewed by network layer protocols,
   in Section 3, something that is important to keep in mind while
   reading the rest of the document.

   The draft then establishes what is currently wrong with [RFC5213], in
   Section 4.  The draft specifically argues that:

      -PMIPv6 is at best incomplete (and at worst fundamentally broken)
      because it relies on parameters not available to it by itself or
      by any other IETF defined protocols.  This affects its fundamental
      operation, in that:

         a) for single interface mobile nodes it is only applicable for
         some link layers.

         b) inter-technology handoffs are broken since the protocol does
         not define how a MAG/LMA knows when two different link layer
         technologies are somehow coupled at a given node, nor does it
         define how the MAG knows if a MN is reachable over a particular
         link layer.

         c) The narrow support for multihoming is broken since the
         protocol does not define how a MAG/LMA knows when handoff vs
         new mobility session is to be provided to the multiple
         interfaces.

   The draft continues with outlining the controversial nature of some
   of the proposed PMIP extensions, in Section 5.1.  The arguments
   presented can be summarized as follows:

      a) To fix Inter-technology handoffs and to support multihoming
      properly, MN involvement is required.



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      b) The MN involvement must be at the network layer (or above), and
      must be defined by the IETF.

      c) The need for (b) breaks the original reason for defining PMIPv6
      in the IETF i.e., a mobility management protocol that does not
      require MN involvement.

      d) If (c) is ignored, and PMIPv6 extensions are considered then
      the following issues arise:

         - The definition of an MN-MAG protocol, essentially turns MAGs
         into FA-like entities; but FAs were designed out of MIPv6 for
         many reasons.  Why do we need FA-like functionality back and in
         what form?

         - Such a protocol, would bring PMIPv6 in direct competition
         with MIPv6, contributing to undesirable proliferation of
         redundant tools in the Internet, which requires justification
         that is not currently available.

   The fundamental question then becomes, if MN involvement is
   unavoidable, and if such involvement has to be at network layer, what
   is the justification for extending PMIPv6, when the whole premise of
   PMIPv6 is "no MN involvement", and when MIPv6 fully defines a
   protocol implementing these functions *with* MN involvement?

   The draft finally concludes, in Section 6, by first arguing that the
   justification for the proposed work on PMIPv6 inter-technology and
   multihoming support, is nonexistent and lists specific questions that
   need to be answered by the various factions of the NETEXT community
   supporting this work (Section 6.1), and by then proposes a way
   forward for PMIPv6 work (Section 6.2).

3.  The Internet, the Interface, and the Host

   This section provides some background on how "hosts" and "interfaces"
   are viewed in network layer specifications of the IETF.  This context
   is important since a lot of the debate around PMIPv6 centers around
   the nature, availability and awareness of these entities at various
   places in the network e.g., MAGs according to [RFC5213] have to
   regularly ask the question: "Is interface X part of host Y, and
   associated with Interface Z (i.e., are interfaces X and Y under the
   same virtual interface?"

   The Internet at the network layer has no notion of a host.  The end
   points of the Internet are IP Interfaces, identified by lower layers
   as a link layer address (or other low layer identifier) and by the
   higher layers by their IP addresses.  The link layer end point



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   associated with a given interface can be presumed to be on the same
   or different link with other such end point interfaces, but it is
   mostly impossible to tell which of these link layer end points are
   grouped under the same interface and even harder to know which
   interfaces are grouped inside the same computer unit (end node or
   host).  Several protocols do that but always at a higher layer
   (network or above) and always by means of explicit signaling; see
   more on this in Section 4.1.

   Each of the link layers on top of which IP can operate, in the end
   represents an interface connected to a link over which the Internet
   Protocol runs.

   The basic IETF protocols defined for end node to access router
   communications (e.g., [RFC0792] and [RFC4861]), are link-specific and
   treat each link layer end point on a given link, as an independent
   interface with no concern of whether two interfaces are part of the
   same node or not.  For example [RFC4861] says:

      " Routers and multihomed hosts have multiple interfaces.  The
      remainder of this document assumes that all sent and received
      Neighbor Discovery messages refer to the interface of appropriate
      context....  "

   Indeed [RFC4861], in Appendix A, also indicates that NDP operation
   for multihomed nodes (on the same link) is "not straightforward".
   The RFC discusses various implications of same-link multihoming with
   respect to redirect and load-balancing functions, and places the
   responsibility for making this work on the end node which is the only
   entity that really knows what interface configuration it has.  The
   RFC of course has nothing to say about multihomed nodes on different
   links, since these are in fact invisible to the network layer.

   It is therefore expected that the default behavior of any access
   router is to treat each interface attaching to it as a distinct
   entity, independent from all other interfaces.  This is then, one of
   the low level building blocks of the Internet i.e., individual,
   independent from each other, end-Interfaces.

   On top of this low level infrastructure of interconnected end points,
   however, it is still possible to create more complex behaviors that
   are, importantly, explicitly signaled and thus, do not interfere with
   the fundamental operation of the Internet nor do they hinder the
   operation of simple nodes not equipped to handle such additional
   complexity.

      And this is where some of the controversy around PMIP starts.




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4.  What is wrong with PMIP so far

   This section ignores any philosophical issue, of which the author has
   many, against PMIP, and focuses on specific technical issues that
   have to do with [RFC5213].

   Several technical issues are identified in following subsection,
   after the following observations:

      1) PMIP is at best incomplete (at worst fundamentally broken),
      because it relies on information not available by PMIP itself or
      any other network layer protocols defined by the IETF.  This is
      direct result of the 'no MN involvement" assumption based on which
      the protocol was built resulting in not defining an MN-MAG
      protocol at the network layer.

      2) PMIP for single interface mobiles can work for specific link
      layers only i.e., when the link layer used presents an identifier
      for the interface e.g., a MAC address, and when these links allow
      the MAG to explicitly identify an interface when it attaches to
      them.

      3) PMIP's Inter-technology handoff support suffers from (1), but
      is also incomplete in the sense that [RFC5213] does not define
      when two different link layer technologies are somehow coupled at
      a given node (e.g., under a given virtual interface).  Inter-
      technology handoff support breaks the 'no-MN-changes' clause of
      [RFC4830] since it requires some form of virtual interface support
      in the node, even if there is no MN-MAG protocol to be
      implemented.

      4) PMIP as defined in [RFC5213] supports multihoming in a very
      narrow manner as defined in section 5.4 of the RFC.  It requires
      that, if two interfaces of the same node attach to the same PMIP
      domain there are two options; a) the two interfaces are under the
      same mobility session in which case only one can be used to
      forward traffic to at any one time, b) the two interfaces belong
      to different mobility sessions, in which case they are treated as
      interfaces of different MNs (i.e., each has its own HoA and
      associated binding state in the LMA).  This is good, but the PMIP
      protocol is again incomplete since it does not define when (a) vs
      (b) is supposed to happen.

4.1.  Signaling for Complexity

   To maintain the Internet's integrity, while allowing for arbitrarily
   complex behaviors, the way complexity is added on top of the rather
   simple IP layer is by explicit signaling of additional, more complex



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   protocols.  Here are some relevant examples:

      SCTP ([RFC4960]: binds multiple IP addresses to the same transport
      layer pipe between two end nodes

      Mobile IP [RFC3344], [RFC3775]: binds a stable home address to one
      (or more) temporary care-of addresses

   What is important about these protocols is that they explicitly
   signal their intentions.

   SCTP is signaled end to end, the routers in the path are oblivious to
   it, and the peer end node will accept an SCTP pipe only if it also
   supports SCTP.  The complexity of handling multiple IP addresses as
   part of the same transport pipe has, therefore, no impact on any node
   in the Internet that does not support SCTP.

   Even more relevant is the example of Mobile IP.  End nodes using
   Mobile IP enabled nodes (Mobile Nodes, Home Agents, CNs, and Foreign
   Agents in MIPv4), all signal their capabilities.  MNs indeed
   explicitly signal their desire to use Mobile IP which can be ignored
   or rejected automatically reverting the Mobile Node to operations
   (with no Mobile IP support).  Thus, again, the Mobile IP family of
   protocols has no impact on any node that does not also support Mobile
   IP.

   In contrast, PMIPv6 [RFC5213] operates differently.  Similarly to
   Mobile IP it binds a stable home address to one or more temporary MAG
   addresses.  It does that, however, without the explicit IETF-
   standardized involvement of the MN.  The next section discusses some
   implications of this approach

4.2.  PMIP without Host Signaling

   PMIP was created under the premise of no MN involvement.  The NETLMM
   charter (http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/netlmm-charter.html)
   clearly indicates:

      "This working group is tasked with defining a network-based local
      mobility management protocol, where local IP mobility is handled
      without involvement from the mobile node."

   The "no MN involvement" clause was a fundamental part of justifying
   the need for a new WG, since the IETF has already defined a whole
   family of mobility management protocol "with MN involvement", namely
   [RFC3344] and [RFC3775] with all their extensions.

   Given this "no MN involvement" clause, the solution protocol,



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   (PMIPv6) has to work within these confines resulting in the following
   characteristics:

   PMIP and Single-Interface end nodes

      A single Interface node can operate in a PMIP domain without
      significant problems.  This is because when a single interface is
      attached to a PMIP domain, the end node is made to think it is
      essentially directly connected to the LMA.  If this interface is
      disconnected from one MAG and connected to another MAG, again the
      same illusion of direct connectivity to the LMA is preserved.

      Still, this only works for link layers that present an appropriate
      interface identifier, e.g., a MAC address.  This allows MAGs (or
      actually LMAs) to recognise a new link with a given MN as a link
      of a given node handing-off from another MAG.

   PMIP and a Multi-Interface end nodes

      According to [RFC5213] a PMIP MAG somehow has knowledge of whether
      an interface connected to it falls under one of the following
      categories, expressed in the form of a Handover Hint defined in
      section 8.4 of the RFC.

         1: Attachment over a new interface

         2: Handoff between two different interfaces of the mobile node

         3: Handoff between mobile access gateways for the same
         interface

         4: Handoff state unknown

         5: Handoff state not changed (Re-registration)

   Unfortunately, [RFC5213] does not say how this information is
   obtained.  Lack of standardized signaling for the determination of
   this parameter is causing significant concerns.  The concerns stem
   from the fact that this determination will most likely take place
   according to some proprietary solution that is not under the control
   of the IETF and thus, it's accuracy across multiple link layers is at
   best unpredictable.

   PMIPv6 [RFC5213] attempts to instruct implementers to correctly set
   the Handoff Indication parameter but the protocol has no internal
   knowledge of how to set this value.  For example, 3GPP has defined
   layer 2 procedures (and assume other link layers support the same
   layer 2 procedures) for the MN to indicate to the MAG the Handover



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   Hint.  This is perfectly reasonable for a body that, unlike the IETF,
   designs full systems and can place requirement at any layer and
   entity of that system.

   The IETF, however, has no way of ensuring that a MAG implementation
   will behave appropriately, independently from the Link Layer used
   between MN and MAG.  This could easily result in incompatibilities
   since each SDO specific system tends to make assumptions that are not
   necessarily true, in the general Internet.

4.3.  PMIP and Virtual Interfaces

   An IP Interface is a software construct and as such can take many
   forms.  Many IP interfaces have a one to one relationship with a
   physical interface e.g., an Ethernet adaptor.

   Almost as often, however, IP Interfaces are virtualized in some way
   or another.  Examples of such Virtual Interfaces are IP in IP
   Tunnels, VPN Tunnels, Mobile IP Interfaces, and PMIP interfaces.

   All of these virtual interfaces, which are so common in IP networks
   are either manually configured at the relevant ends (e.g., IP in IP
   tunnels) or explicitly signaled by a protocols e.g., a VPN client may
   use IKEv2 to established an IPSEC tunnel, presenting, Mobile IP uses
   signaling to establish a home address to care-of address binding etc.

   What differentiates PMIP virtual interfaces, is that the formation of
   a PMIP Interface is not explicitly communicated to anyone at the
   network layer.  It is assumed that MAGs "somehow know" whether a link
   layer connection from a given end node is under the same PMIP virtual
   interface with some other such link layer connection.  This
   assumption, that a MAG can somehow know of the existence of a virtual
   interface or not, has always been a stretch and a point of contention
   in NETLMM WG.

   Again, not only the need for virtual interfaces brakes the 'no MN
   changes' clause of [RFC4830], but because of the 'no-MN-invovement'
   basis for PMIP,the MN can not indicate at the network layer (or
   above) exactly which links/interfaces relate to each other and in
   what way, resulting in an incomplete, non-general solution.

4.4.  PMIP and Link Layer Signaling

   It is true that most functions defined at the network layer can also
   be defined in some form or another at a lower layer.  So, there is
   nothing technically strange or difficult about creating a link layer
   that supports any number of link layer protocols, which can be used
   to allow PMIPv6 to perform not only inter-technology handoffs, but



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   also multihoming, flow bindings and most other functions one can
   build on top of a mobility protocol.

   So, arguments against the idea of relying on link layers for such
   triggers are not about the feasibility of such an approach for a
   given link layer.  Instead they are about how this works between all
   the different link layers and node configurations.  For example think
   of an MN with several interfaces.

      - IF1 and IF2 under PMIP VI1

      - IF3 separate

      - IF4 and IF4 under PMIP VI2

   All the interfaces happen to be connected on the same PMIP domain.
   Say IF1 (of VI1) and IF4 (of VI2) are already connected and now one
   more IF is getting connected.  When this new IF connects to a MAG,
   what information does the MAG have to know which one it is and how it
   relates to other IFs?

      - A link layer based handover hint by itself is not enough because
      it does not tell the MAG whether the new IF is IF2 (associated
      with VI1) or IF5 (associated with VI2)

      - The MNs authorization Identifier (NAI, IMSI or whatever) is
      clearly not enough because again it does not say whether the new
      IF is one of the other VI IFs (IF3, IF5) or the independent IF3.

      - The L2 MAC address (if it exist) again does not provide enough
      information, since at best it identifies one interface and not the
      ones related to it.

   It should be clear then that link layer signaling is not appropriate
   for such function since it can never provide information on other
   links.

5.  Why extending PMIP is controversial?

5.1.  Intertech handoff, Multihoming, and Host Signaling

   Part of the work proposed for NETEXT WG, is about a) fixing inter-
   technology handoff support [RFC5213], which as discussed earlier is
   broken (or at best incomplete) and b) extending PMIP to support
   multihoming.  Multihoming in this context refers to a node with
   multiple interfaces (of same or different technology) connected to
   the Internet.  These interfaces can be connected to the same or
   different links, access routers, or even domains.  The extensions



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   proposed would also allow for flow bindings to be used to direct
   different flows to different links of the same end node.

   This document concludes that to really support Inter-technology
   handoffs and Multihoming, network layer signaling from the end node
   is absolutely required.  The following summarizes the reasons for
   this conclusion.

   1) Applicability for ALL link layers:

      The IETF is concerned with the Internet as a whole, which operates
      over an ever expanding variety of link layers.  Indeed mobility in
      the Internet means that any node can move from any link to any
      other link.  While seamlessness of such movement is not
      guaranteed, the network must operate correctly and provide
      deterministic behaviors to the end nodes.  This is why common
      functions, needed over different link layers, are always defined
      at the network layer.

   2) The impossibility of global knowledge:

      a) Inter-technology Handoffs:

         It is not possible for a given link layer, under a given
         Interface, to know, and to be able to signal correctly, which
         other link layers and interfaces are associated with it under a
         PMIPv6 Virtual Interface.  This is because by definition, a
         link layer has access only to information of its own layer.  It
         is also not possible to have preconfigured knowledge of such
         relationships in the network (a.g., AAA) since the
         configuration of an end node can change at any time, without
         the AAA being notified (e.g., an device is changed or
         upgraded).



      b) Multihoming and Flow Bindings:

         The same arguments but even stronger hold in this case.  If
         neither the link layers nor the network can not be expected to
         handle (a) then they can definitely not handle multihoming and
         flow bindings which require a lot more information regarding
         application mix running in the end node and instantaneous
         condition of different link layers available.



   It should now be clear that to fix inter-technology handoff support



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   in [RFC5213] and to extend it further to support multihoming and flow
   bindings, a network layer MN-MAG protocol is required.

5.2.  PMIP with Host Signaling

   If one concludes that host signaling is required for these advanced
   features, it then should be reasonable to ask:

      "why host signaling is such a controversial issue for PMIP?"

   Some proposals, like [draft-krishnan-netlmm-pmip-sel-00],
   [draft-larsson-netext-pmipv6-sma-flow-mobility-00], and even
   [draft-devarapalli-netext-multi-interface-support], openly talk about
   the need for such IETF defined signaling.  At least some, however, in
   the NETEXT mailing list discussions present significant resistance in
   admitting this is necessary and the NETEXT BOF presentations where at
   vague and evasive on the subject.

   There are several reasons for this, discussed in the following
   subsections.

5.2.1.  Historic Reasons

   The formation of NETLMM WG was strongly resisted by part of the
   community (see for example [draft-soliman-netlmm-harmful]).  So much
   so that the WG's formation was even the subject of satire and
   sarcasm; remember NetLemmings? [draft-bombadil-netlemmings].

   The group was finally formed under the assumption that it would not
   introduce any changes to the end nodes.  Indeed the original NETLMM
   charter (http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/HISTORY/
   netlmm-charter.2006-07-24.15.html) said:

      "...no specific mobile node to network protocol will be required
      for localized mobility management itself. "

   The charter continued saying:

      "...The (PMIPv6) protocol itself will be agnostic with respect to
      the last hop link layer protocol between the mobile node and the
      access router."

5.2.2.  MAG ... the new FA?

   It is not often expressed explicitly but a PMIP MAG is very similar
   to a MIPv4 Foreign Agent ([RFC3344], the main functional difference
   being that an [RFC5213] compliant MAG does not operate a PMIP-related
   protocol with the end nodes.  Instead it relies on "lower layer"



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   triggers for its operation, and suffers for that, for example by
   having to deal with rather complex ordering of PBUs [RFC5213],
   Section 5.5.

   Introduction of MN to MAG signaling at the network layer, would
   indeed make MAGs even more similar to MIPv4 [RFC3344] Foreign Agents
   (FA).  This which would raise two important issues:

      During the design of MIPv6, foreign agents were considered
      undesirable.  Based on this, FAs were designed out of the MIPv6
      protocol.  The PMIPv6 community has yet to make a case on why we
      need to re-create them now.  Some of the reasons FAs are
      considered undesirable are:

         a)FAs required support from the Access Networks thus impeding
         the MN's ability to move freely without be concerned of whether
         or exactly what each access system supports.

         b) FAs are unnecessary in IPv6 since there is no shortage of
         address space (i.e., no need for shared care-of addresses in
         MIPv4-FA mode.

         c) FAs require a chain of trust between MNs, FAs, and HAs is
         increased complexity compared to the one hop association of
         MN-HA in MIPv6.

      One could, however, make an argument for why removing FAs from
      this Mobile IP architecture was a mistake and we need them back
      in.  Indeed the introduction of MAGs may point to that conclusion
      but this debate has never taken place in the IETF in these terms.

      If the resurrection of FAs in their MAG form can be argued,
      however, one should also ask the question: "If we really need FA-
      like functionality in IPv6 mobility management, why is it not
      defined as part of the mainstream MIPv6 solution itself?"

         a) On one hand it is rather obvious for example, that if we
         incorporate MAGs into the Mobile IPv6 protocol structure, we
         are much more likely to have better interoperability and
         handoff between domains using MAGs and others that do not.

         b) On the other hand, it is not clear that any of the reasons
         FAs were designed out of MIPv6 are no longer valid and thus the
         whole endeavor is questionable.







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5.2.3.  Proliferation of Redundant Tools

   Once the IETF developed a tool to handle a specific function e.g.,
   Mobile IP for Mobility, the barrier for additional tools tackling the
   same problem space is, and should be high.

   This is both reasonable and necessary to ensure wide adoption of
   these tools and it is the reason why it is not so easy to define a
   new transport protocol to replace TCP, or a new Web protocol to
   replace HTTP.  This does not mean that a new tool is impossible, it
   is just a matter of having a high bar for the adoption of such
   redundant tools.

   During the formation of the NETLMM WG a case was made for basic
   PMIPv6, based on the idea that for a single interface mobility (i.e.
   intra-technology handovers), it should be possible to define a
   mobility management protocol that, unlike Mobile IP, does not rely on
   end node signaling and provides mobility transparently to the end
   node IP stack, without any host changes ([RFC4830].

   As explained in detail in Section 5.1, these initial assumptions are
   not possible for inter-technology handoffs and multihoming.

   It should now be clear that introduction of host signaling in the
   PMIP protocol defeats the purpose of NETLMM/PMIP's existence since
   that was to provide mobility transparently to the IP stack of end
   nodes, unlike what MIPv6 [RFC3775] provides based on host signaling.

6.  Conclusions

6.1.  Lack of Justification for PMIPv6 Extensions

   During the NETEXT BOF and subsequent discussions on the mailing list
   a lot of time has been expending around the justification arguments
   for enhancing PMIPv6 further with inter-technology and multihoming
   features. [draft-jeyatharan-netext-multihoming-ps-01] attempts to
   capture such justification but it falls short in the following
   respects.

   As discussed earlier, the NETLMM WG was established and PMIPv6
   protocol was defined based on the "no MN involvement" assumption.
   The "no MN involvement" assumption restricts the operation of this
   protocol, and makes advanced features like multihoming and flow
   movement seem unreasonable in the context of such restrictions.

   Some in the NETEXT community argue that any required MN involvement
   can be done at lower layers.  This part of the community has to
   address the following issues:



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      - It is a well understood fact that this is not possible for all
      link layers.  It is actually not clear at all which link layers
      have such capability and whether the triggers are compatible or
      equivalent between different technologies.

      - It is important for the integrity of the Internet, that the IETF
      defines standardized mechanisms providing all the necessary
      parameters for its own protocols to operate.  The author is not
      aware of any IETF protocol that this is not currently true.  This
      does not seem possible when a protocol depends on external
      triggers not controlled by any other IETF protocol.

   There are at least some in the NETEXT community, however, who
   recognize that MN involvement at the network layer is necessary to
   make these advanced features work with PMIPv6.  This part of the
   community has to address a different set of issues.

      - The definition of an MN-MAG network layer protocol, invalidates
      the main reason why PMIPv6 was created in the first place (i.e.,
      mobility management with no MN involvement).  It was always
      assumed that MIPv6 would then handle any advance functions that
      require MN involvement.  What is the justification for changing
      this assumption?

   As a conclusion the discussion so far comes down to one point.  What
   is the justification for extending PMIPv6's inter-technology and
   multihoming capabilities?  What is missing from the IETF arsenal of
   tools to handle such features?  Why are existing tools not
   sufficient?  These are fundamental questions that MUST be answered
   before any such work can be taken on.

6.2.  What should be done with PMIPv6

   A number of extensions proposed in the context for NETEXT WG are
   natural to this work and at the time of writing were approved as part
   of NETEXT WG Charter, e.g., Bulk Registrations, LMA Redirection etc.
   These tasks should indeed go ahead.

   It is the opinion of this author, however, that PMIPv6 and all its
   extensions should be limited to single interface operations, without
   any inter-technology handoff and without multihoming support beyond
   what is already defined in [RFC5213].

   This document actually explains in earlier sections and in detail
   that [RFC5213] includes a number of features that are incomplete or
   even broken due to lack of MN-MAG protocol.  [RFC5213] should
   therefore be revised, not to add to these features, but to either
   change them, so no MN involvement is required, or to remove them from



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   the RFC altogether.

7.  Security Considerations

   This document does not introduce any Security Considerations

8.  IANA Considerations

   This document does not introduce any IANA Considerations

9.  Acknowledgements

   Thanks to Marcelo Bagnulo who poked a number of holes on my original
   arguments causing me significant pain :-), but in the end helping me
   refine and clarify them significantly.  Also thanks to Gerardo
   Giaretta and Hesham Soliman for useful comments and suggestions.

   Many of the arguments presented below are not solely mine but have
   been discussed in the past in NETLMM WG mailing list, and more
   recently in NETEXT BOF and subsequent discussions on the mailing
   list.

10.  Informative References

   [RFC0792]  Postel, J., "Internet Control Message Protocol", STD 5,
              RFC 792, September 1981.

   [RFC0894]  Hornig, C., "Standard for the transmission of IP datagrams
              over Ethernet networks", STD 41, RFC 894, April 1984.

   [RFC2004]  Perkins, C., "Minimal Encapsulation within IP", RFC 2004,
              October 1996.

   [RFC2119]  Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
              Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.

   [RFC2225]  Laubach, M. and J. Halpern, "Classical IP and ARP over
              ATM", RFC 2225, April 1998.

   [RFC3344]  Perkins, C., "IP Mobility Support for IPv4", RFC 3344,
              August 2002.

   [RFC3775]  Johnson, D., Perkins, C., and J. Arkko, "Mobility Support
              in IPv6", RFC 3775, June 2004.

   [RFC4830]  Kempf, J., "Problem Statement for Network-Based Localized
              Mobility Management (NETLMM)", RFC 4830, April 2007.




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   [RFC4861]  Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson, W., and H. Soliman,
              "Neighbor Discovery for IP version 6 (IPv6)", RFC 4861,
              September 2007.

   [RFC4960]  Stewart, R., "Stream Control Transmission Protocol",
              RFC 4960, September 2007.

   [RFC5213]  Gundavelli, S., Leung, K., Devarapalli, V., Chowdhury, K.,
              and B. Patil, "Proxy Mobile IPv6", RFC 5213, August 2008.

   [RFC5226]  Narten, T. and H. Alvestrand, "Guidelines for Writing an
              IANA Considerations Section in RFCs", BCP 26, RFC 5226,
              May 2008.

Author's Address

   George Tsirtsis
   Qualcomm

   EMail: tsirtsis@gmail.com































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PAFTECH AB 2003-20262026-04-24 13:08:22